038: Turning Tragedy into Opportunities to Survive and Thrive with Dave Sanderson *

[INTERVIEW]

Casey: Welcome to another episode of Retire With Purpose. I am your host, Casey Weade, and today joining me we have Dave Sanderson. Dave, welcome to the podcast.

Dave: Casey, thank you very much for having me. I’m excited to be with you, a way to kick off this year.

Casey: Well, Dave, we’re often having conversations about retirement on this show and retirement planning specifically and a lot of retirement has to do with dealing with crisis because retirement can feel like a real crisis and you’re someone that has dealt with crisis, has been in the thick of crisis time and time again, and one particular moment in your life kind of stands out. You actually wrote about it in your book. Moments Matter, which I just got finished reading here earlier today and I’m really excited to touch on it and that is largely about the Miracle on the Hudson. And all of us, I think for myself, I remember that day quite vividly, but I didn't really get the experience that you got, thank goodness, in the plane and I think our listeners would really love you just take us back to that moment, to the Miracle on Hudson. What did that feel like? What was that experience like? Just to walk us through your day and how things went.

Dave: Well, thank you. This is really amazing because we’re coming up on the 10th anniversary of the Miracle on the Hudson in two weeks and it’s as vivid to me today as it was that day. So, here's the backstory that really what happened. I wasn't supposed to be on that flight. I was in a business meeting at a client in Brooklyn that started at 5 AM and we’re working at a distribution center which opened up quite early in the morning so we started early in the morning because we want to be in the thick of the things around distribution and that's what people did that. So, we got done roughly at 10 o'clock. Now, my strategy I traveled for 30 years in technology sale. So, my strategy was always take the last flight out because you don’t how the day’s going to go. Well, I’ll schedule on the 5:00 flight but when we got there at 10:00 I may have a three-day business travel week. Let’s get on early. Then tell the wife, did call her, say I’m a little surprised her being home and I got on US Airways Flight 1549 and which was now known as the Miracle on the Hudson. So, I wasn't supposed to be on that flight. But I was a top flyer as a chairman so I had status so I gave up my first class seat to be in Seat 15A just to get on the plane.

Not exactly, Casey, what you would do, and people who are listening do every single time they get on a plane. I didn't pay attention. I just got in a plane, throw my things down, start reading a magazine, and didn’t pay attention to anything. And in about 60 seconds plus or minus after we took off is when I heard an explosion on the plane and mainly it basically rocked me because I never heard anything on a plane like that, but I was in Seat 15A which is four rows behind that left wing so when I looked out the window to see if I could see anything, all I saw was fire coming out underneath the left wing. So, I knew something had happened, but I also knew from flying so often that planes have multiple engines and that plane had two engines. So, I was like, “No, big deal. He’s just going to go back to the airport. We’ll get on a plane. I'll probably get home at the same time I was planning to get home anyway,” but as we know now and we did not know then that both engines were out simultaneously, which I think is part of the miracle that people don't really understand.

Now, I think what happened is it was a simultaneous bird strike which is one in a billion. Because most of the time it would’ve been bang, bang, and then people would’ve thought, “Uh, oh, terrorist attack,” something like that but we heard one bang so everybody thought, "We got another engine,” because if you look at the passenger makeup of that plane which is a lot, something that people don’t look at and I now look at significantly when I get on a plane is over 90% of people in that plane are business people like you and I. They travel frequently. So, we’re used to things going on planes that we understand how things work. So, the variable is basically about 10% of people who were traveling with either kids or families was pretty minute, so no one lost their heads until we crossed the George Washington Bridge and when you heard the captain come on with his famous words, “This is your captain. Brace for impact.” I think that was the moment, I know I, that’s when I felt that we are probably something serious was going to happen because all I could see out the window was I looked down at people's faces were looking up at us from the bridge. And I didn't know until later that the bridge is roughly about, you know, 1,600 feet up. We are at that point about 1,000 feet. So, we all decreased, we only cleared the bridge for about 600 feet or so, so people were looking up. I was looking down. It’s like all I could see is water.

Now, I was on the left side of the plane so I saw the Jersey side. I didn’t see the New York side. All I saw is us going down the water and the first thing I felt is like this is not going to turn out well. Something’s going to happen and either I was going to be at a better place in a few minutes or I was going to come back probably pretty racked up whether I was injured or something like that. Because the one thing people worry about, Casey, on a plane and I don’t know if you do and I know I did is fire. I mean, if you and, Casey, in the crash you usually see fire or you see that picture you may have seen in other plane crashes in water where the plane’s toppling because it catches the wing. So, either that or we’re going to top off of New York and New Jersey, which is another situation. So, at that point, I felt that Casey, I probably wasn’t going to come back but fortunately, we got down safely which was amazing. It was a hard hit. That’s how people, it wasn’t one of those nice jerk. It was a hard hit and I went back in my seat and up my seat. When I came up, I saw a light so I knew that I was alive but part two of the equation is waters coming in rapidly.

And you look out the window, we were halfway down where I would see. Now, I was towards the back of the plane. Now, the front of the plane was sticking out. Back of the plane was already pretty well submerged and I was about – now, our window is by halfway up in water. So, I knew that we were in the water. It’s coming in pretty rapidly and so at that point in time I said, "Part one is getting down. Part two is getting out.” And that was where things start happening and sort of changing my life because my thought process, Casey, was to get to the aisle, get up, and get out. That’s exactly what I thought. Aisle. Up. Out. But when I got to the aisle, that’s when everything changed for me and my whole day started shifting because that's when I heard my mom start talking to me. She had passed away in 1997, but when I was a child, she would say something to me and my sister, brother constantly, “If you do the right thing, God will take care of you.” My mother was a God-fearing lady and what I felt things after I saw thinking about what my mother said is my mother never would tell me to do something.

She would always make me make a decision which is something that, Casey, I think I have dropped the ball on many parents probably do now is we try to make decisions for our kids so they could do the right thing but we don't teach them how to make decisions. And so, that's one of the things that changed the background. I try to not tell my kids what to do. I hopefully give them the opportunity to make a decision and there are consequences to every decision, positive or negative. But fortunately for me when I heard that, I went towards the back of the plane because I knew I was alive. I know anybody in the back, how that was so I went to the back of the plane, got to find everybody else, and just like everybody else, I try to get out.

Casey: I’d say right there and most people in that instance and I know I just got done talking to the director of operations about this conversation. He said, “Well, I’d kind of think about that like running from a bear. I just have to be faster than the slowest person,” and you thought about the opposite, helping that slowest person.

Dave: Yeah. Because at that point I knew I was alive, but you don't know what’s going on the back because the back is already submerged in water. I mean, they were – I was about knee-deep in water, thigh-deep in water. They were chest-deep in water and usually, I wasn't thinking this at the moment but now you think back, most of the people in the back of the plane don’t travel probably as often as I travel. So, I just went to the back, see if anybody needed help, and started making my way out. And the first light that I saw was on the right, the door on the right. It was 10F so I was like, "Just get out. It’s time I had to get out.” I just want to get out because water was coming in but when I got to the door, there was another thing. The wing was already filled up. If you’ve seen the pictures of the plane in the water and the wings were already filled up but more importantly, that little lifeboat that pops out was already filled up so there's no room on the wing or the boat for me so that's why I was inside the plane waist deep in 36-degree water for about seven minutes. And, Casey, I didn't know and I wasn't – when you’re in the process, you just got adrenaline going. It wasn't until I saw this picture on Good Morning America of me hanging out in the plane that I really started understanding what really happened.

Because what happened when I started to try to get out, I couldn’t get out, people started yelling at me just to hold on, hold on to the boat because if you know anything about the Hudson River, I learned a lot about it in the last several years, it’s got extremely fast current. This plane was floating down the river as this thing was going on. So, as it was floating down the river, that lifeboat was floating in and out from the plane and they like I, and I don’t know about you, you probably read the instructions, I didn't. It’s actually tethered to the plane but no one knew that so that's why I was holding on this lifeboat for waist deep at 36-degree water until I felt the plane shift. Now, when I felt the plane shift, I don't know what happened or how it happened but I felt water started going in my back and the first thing I thought about was Titanic and it’s like I said Titanic, that’s the thing I called it. All I could associate to that was a boat tipping up and sucking it down, everything down in, and I'm like, "This thing is going down, man.” I tell people I stopped to thank my mom and my dad because if they didn’t give me swimming lessons when I was a kid, I may never get out of that plane. Because I started thinking about that and one of the reasons we named the book, Moments Matter, it’s about this moment right here.

It’s because as I started thinking about that moment, Casey, it was like, yeah, I remember when I was 12 years old and I was in Boy Scouts and I was going for the sake of the Order of the Arrow which was like a camping orienteering recognition, one of the top recognitions you could get in Boy Scouts. It’s where your dad drops you off when you're 12 and I’ll see you in a couple days and you’re with a bunch of other guys and it’s like survivor on steroids. It’s like you’re after the middle of the wilderness, you got to do all these activities, and at the same time, you got to whittle this big, big log down to a little arrow to signify you got it done. The one thing we had to do was get across the river to get to the next activity and, of course, you could’ve gone down the river and cross the bridge. That was an option but that would've taken time and we only had like 18 to 24 hours to get all the stuff done.

So, we swam across the river and I started thinking, was that the moment when I was 12 that gave me the certainty to do what I was going to do. That’s when I jumped in the river and started swimming to the closest boat that I could find. I started thinking all these moments that you have in your life, Casey, that you don't think really mean anything, you just go through life, they’re there for a reason, and that's why we named the book Moments Matter because all these moments often add up to that one significant moment in your life and you got to be resourceful. You got to employ those things to maybe not only save your life but maybe save somebody else's life. That’s how I got off the plane.

Casey: And that moment that you had right there is going to compound and it's going to be something that you continue to use moving forward I would think.

Dave: Most definitely. It gave me certainty. And somebody asked me, the first interview I did was with a gentleman by the name of Rick Warren, Purpose Driven Connection and Purpose Driven Life and I did it for his magazine and it was more about the spiritual aspect of what happened that day but I totally lost it. In that interview, I said, "You know, one thing I realized is it wasn’t a Saul to Paul moment for me. But with this moment, these moments that would happen, that they gave me certainty to know when I face a crisis, when I face something challenging whether it’s a financial challenge, whether it’s a personal challenge, whether it's losing a family member, whatever it is that I survive something of that significance. I have certainty that I can survive and now help other people who are going to traumatic life experiences likewise. That's what my mission has turned into.”

Casey: Well, I would think that experience I'm getting ready to hop on a plane here this coming weekend, so I probably couldn’t have this conversation at a better time but now I've got to get on a plane but, hey, you’re going to give me all kinds of great tips and I’m actually going to pay attention to the stewardess.

Dave: Pay attention the flight attendant. Yes.

Casey: And recognize all those exits, but I think one of the things that I got out of your book and one of the things you've mentioned in past interviews is what went through your mind as soon as you heard the captain get on the loudspeaker and say, "Brace for impact.” And you had to think at that moment, "This is it. My life is over,” and you hear all the time during those moments that our life flashes before our lives. Is that what happened for you or did you just go into action and know exactly what you're going to do when you hit the water? Were you thinking about all those past life experiences? What was that like?

Dave: Yeah. That's a very significant part is because when I heard that, the first thing I did is I prayed because, at this point, I can tell people, I do anything what you mean God right now, but going down, I want to make sure I have my ticket opened up in case something did happen but what happened to me is I contrast that with something that happened to somebody I spoke to who survived the earthquake in Haiti and she was buried for over six hours after the earthquake. And she and I were comparing notes on what happened and there are significant moments. It is pretty identical because what happened to me and what happened to her was your life does flash before your eyes. You see things with clarity that you hadn’t seen in 30, 40 plus years, and all of a sudden I was thinking basically the movie of my life play out in my head that this is everything that sort of led up to where I’m at right now whether it was my first date or whether it’s playing football in high school or whether it was a family event when I was a young kid going out to the lake and going fishing.

All I saw I see it with clarity and that’s when my mission and my purpose start coming into view and the same thing happened with her. When she got back to the States, she said, all of a sudden, she knew she had a new mission and basically, she was a minister and she still is a minister, but she knew she had a different calling in her ministry. That's sort of what happened to me likewise. All of a sudden, I had clarity. Now, I think most people who are facing that last moment of life situation, see have that kind of clarity come into their heads.

Casey: Well, unfortunately, most of us, well, I say fortunately most of us don't have to have that moment, but it seems like most of people that do end up with this great deal of clarity towards their purpose and their mission in life. Before we got started, you had mentioned that you could've retired if you wanted to by now. You’re what, 57 years old, could be retired but now you set yourself up on a new mission, a fulfilling purpose. And as I sit down with couples and individuals that are contemplating retirement, one of the things that I want them to think about is once you leave this mortal plane at the very end of life, what are you going to think about that is the most important to you? What's most important to you in this life? And you don't necessarily know that to get to the end of life, but without answering that question on the front end of retirement, you can end up making the wrong decisions. You can end up doing the wrong thing with your life and wasting in the end because you look back and you go, “Boy, now I should've spent more time with my family. I shouldn’t have been on E*TRADE day trading every single day because that just wasn't fulfilling.”

How can I sit down with people and get them to have that clarity to ask that right question themselves and actually put themselves in that situation where this is their last moments on earth? What types of questions would you use to jumpstart that? So, I know you use this as a leadership platform. You do coaching at the same time. As you have these conversations with people, how do you get them to make that switch to recognize what's the most important and follow it?

Dave: That's a really great question because the only organizations I work with gave me some clarity on all that. It's an organization in Dallas called Halftime and it’s about those people who get to that point that you’re talking about, that point where they got the money, but they’re not growing or they're not happy, and they want to retire but they don't know what they’re going to do, and it helps people get clarity on that. So, when I met with them is one of the questions I was looking for and one of the things that I tell and ask people is and I learned this from being, Casey, with Tony Robbins. It’s not my new information, but what's most important in your life? What has to happen for you to realize that? Those are the two the most significant questions that I ask people when I do any mentoring or coaching is what's the most important. And what happened to me is when I was on that boat getting transported in New Jersey, that's when I realized all of a sudden, A, I was living pretty much to work and I was missing so many things of life. I was making a lot of money. I was pretty good at what I was doing and I could've retired. Casey, my goal was to retire by 50. That was the goal, but all of a sudden, I had a new mission and it’s about impacting other people's lives. How could I do that and while supporting my family’s lives?

Because, Casey, I’m not proud of this but I was missing a lot of things with my kids, especially my two older kids. One was at the point a junior high school and one was a freshman in high school. I missed a lot of activities because I would schedule my life around my work and then fit my family in and I knew that had to flip. And once I figured that I had to flip, all of a sudden, things started opening up in my life where I was focused on my right mission and I had a bigger purpose. And I'm trying to help people understand that. It’s like try to do that younger. I'm doing a program next week in Canada and it’s called Pathway To Your Purpose. It’s primarily for people for about 42 to 43 down to about 25. Don’t understand what their purpose is. They don’t know how to apply a purpose plus they want to be leaders but no one’s ever showed them how to do this and it all starts, as you know, in your own personal leadership skills. And fortunately for me, I learned those when I was coming out of college and I had my mentor, Bill, and some other people who are helping me but taught me these leadership skills and help me throughout my life and especially that day on the Hudson River.

Casey: Well, and I believe as you've illustrated, it's never too late in your life to redefine your purpose and follow something new and find it incredibly fulfilling. I think what's interesting is sometimes we think, I mean, I listen to Tony all the time. I've read every book on personal development you can think of. And I think sometimes I get it wrong, developing that purpose, and you're probably going to get it wrong until you have a moment of clarity like this and I'm wondering how it's changed for you. In your book, you wrote your personal mission statement back in October 4, 1994. It went like this, “I, Dave Sanderson, see hear, feel, and know that the purpose of my life is to be happy. I realize that I can accomplish anything I desire when I have faith in my creator and inspiring others to do the same.” How has that changed or has it?

Dave: You know, it really hasn't changed, and what happened to me and if you read the book as I got the story in the book is the following week and after the plane crash when I spoke at my church is the first place I ever spoke at in my life and a lady came up, an elderly lady came up to me after I got done speaking and she just grabbed my arm and it’s like she's pulling at me. I’m like, “Whoa, what’s going on?” This is a week after our plane crash, Casey. I was already on the edge. But she asked questions if there is a God, “I don’t believe in miracles but you’re physical evidence that there is a God and he does miracles.” And that’s when I realized like my mission is finally playing out and having faith in her creator, I've inspired somebody now who before she goes in the great beyond wherever that is, now has a different mission, a different faith and I said, “My mission was that.” That’s when the clarity came on, I think. That's why I get emotional when I speak about that because when your mission comes to life and somebody actually, you’re looking at, realizes that and your mission is like, “Now, I got clarity.”

What I wrote in 1994 I wrote a book, I felt it but now it's come to life and I think that's when people who want to retire and people I talked who at that point in life likewise that light bulb goes off. I got a lot more to give. You know, I've worked, I’ve done this, and all of a sudden, my mission is now coming in the view and now I can actually live my mission and that's why I try to help people with when I do and I’m mentoring and coaching and my leadership course and my personal group.

Casey: Well, when you get to be 50, 60, 70, you've had all these decades of experience, you have so much to give back that you've been blessed with over the years all those experiences and sometimes it's hard to distill those past experiences into a purpose and I think that's at the core of it. I think it's interesting on Good Morning America, there was another passenger I think you're on there with and that other passenger said, “I don't want to ever see you, people, again. This has been a horrible experience for me,” and you took a different path than this person did. I think of retirees that sometimes, “I just hate my job. I hate being around these people. I'm leaving, I’m retiring, and I'm never going back and I never want to go back.” And sometimes I think that really, they could take those experiences that they had during their working lives and they could grow upon those things rather than running from them. They could really embrace them and re-create a purpose around those experiences. Why do you think you took one path and this other passenger took a completely different path?

Dave: I appreciate you bringing that up because it’s interesting, some of the passengers have even questioned why I do what I do now and how I did give up my job and it took me five years to do that, but to do that. And it goes back to something I learned years ago is the meaning you attach to something produces the emotion of your life and emotion really is your life. Now, I think the meaning he attached was all negative because he lost his job. I found out he lost his job. His wife is going to leave him so he attached the meaning of negativity, “This situation caused all this.” Where I attached the meaning as this is a blessing. This has opened up so many more avenues and it gave me clarity of my purpose. So, I think it all comes down to the meaning people attach to whatever is going on. Whether it’s in your business, likewise. Whether you’re going for your financial challenges, which people do all the time. I mean, when I went out, Casey, from making what I was making, I was making a very good living to starting my own business and going out do what I'm doing. I started zero.

When you go from what I was making at zero, you had to have been strong in your meaning. You had to really and like I learned, you got to burn the boats. You just go where your meaning’s going to lead you. Well, he didn't have that meaning. I wish he would've talked to some other people because he's no longer around the people on like us. Most of the people who were there that day have a different meaning of life now just like me. So, I’m sorry for he had that, but unfortunately, he associated a different meaning. It always comes down to meaning.

Casey: I think that's one of the things about retirement. Sometimes we have a negative idea of what retirement is, “I never want to retire. It’s going to be awful or I'm just not the retirement type,” and eventually, you’re potentially going to be forced into retirement at some point and I think it really pays, as you said, to gather experiences from other individuals that have already been there. You're about to go through this crisis. You're feeling this crisis in retirement. You’re making this retirement transition and one of the best things that I've seen happen to the families we work with is when they attend our events and they start actually talking to other retirees that are absolutely loving retirement that can really ease the pressure of stepping in retirement and seeing what it really can be. And yeah, one of the things that you said in your book, I just want to make sure we get this out there. The two questions you need to ask in order to really define your halftime, in order to define this greater purpose, you said, one, what's most important to you which you mentioned and, number two, you said, what has to happen for you to be able to realize that?

Dave: That’s right.

Casey: I think if you can internalize what has to happen then you can kind of feel that and put yourself in that situation without maybe actually having to experience it.

Dave: Most definitely. It always comes – and one of the things I teach or talk about is sensory acuity because everybody's got that primary sensory whether it's visual, auditory, or kinesthetic. The periphery primarily is also old factory gustatory but some people are so kinesthetic they have to feel it. So, when I learned that question it makes you feel what has to happen and all of a sudden you associated those feelings, that kinesthetic mode in your mind, and you can visualize it and then you articulate it. I mean, you can incorporate all of the senses and now I use the example of when I did a project at Disney. Now, one of the things that Disney does better than anybody else, why Disney's loved though, by so many people, they incorporate every sense in your body to everything they do. Now, I give an example as you walk into Disneyland, you see the trains, you hear the music, you smell the smells of Disney. They’re piping in those, smell the cinnamon. And all of a sudden, every sense in your body so now you're totally connected and that’s when people who are going to, do I question do I go to retirement or do I ever retire?

You have to associate all your senses to do what's good and positive meaning that’s going to happen for you when you go to that retirement. I mean I like it. You look at two people who are in the sports industry and both of them had very short retirements. One was Bear Bryant, one of the most successful football coaches in history. A week after he retired, he passed away and why is that? Because he didn’t have a purpose. His whole purpose was coaching. Then you look at somebody like Joe Paterno who was going through some challenges and he retires and forced out. Two weeks later, he’s dead. He lost his purpose. So, it all goes back to understanding what your purpose is and attaching these me meanings to your purpose and once you do that, to be very candid, Casey, I’m never going to retire. You have to carry me out at a stretcher because now I have a different purpose and all I've done is I'm doing what I love instead of doing what I have to do to make a living. I design my life instead of having someone else design my life.

Casey: Well, it seems like one of the things that helped you during this period of crisis was having that mission statement and we have to know as we step into retirement that we’re going to face crisis at some point, whether that's a major healthcare issue, whether that's a major stock market crash, recession, depression, we’re going to encounter these experiences that that feel like a crisis if they aren't actually a crisis. And I wonder what if someone was building a mission statement for their retirement? How would they go about that? And how can they best formulate a mission statement that can help them handle future crisis and live a very fulfilled life?

Dave: Great question, because I actually asked a similar type of question that to my former minister and it came out actually, we were in an executive board meeting at a church. I was on the board and we were talking and people going back and forth and these are traditionally older folks. They’ve been it’s either run but we’re trying to figure out what the mission the church needed to be. So, I asked him, Ken, my minister, I said, “Ken, I'm sure that Jesus, wasn’t just pixie dust and sunshine, how did he really understand his mission or how did he really go about it? He goes, “Well, when Jesus had a tough day,” or he needed to do that, he just goes out, he would pray and all of a sudden, he’d ask the questions of his creator, which was God, and all a sudden his mind opened up to the possibilities and then he also he knew his mission. And all his mission was make people fisher’s of men. I mean, pretty easy, right? It’s very short, concise, but that was his mission. You want other people to believe. So, I tell people when they get to that point is first that I do is I go out and I pray. Just give me the mind to open up, give me creativity in my mind and to be able to understand what is most important in how I can add more significant value than somebody else and so it would even more value to me.

And if I can do that, all of a sudden, that mission changes a little bit every day even the one called mission. Like today is serving you and your audience. This is my mission right now and you could tell how passionate I am because I got everything going into it. You see my body, I’m moving, I've got everything engaged because this is the mission. So, I think people who go into that retirement stage need to understand. Okay, I've gone to this stage of life. I’ve had a great run but now I've got another 30 years to live. How do I want to live it? Do I just want to go play golf? That's cool. That's what my father-in-law did. He's 40 years retired. He's playing golf. That's cool, right? But I think most of you have a bigger mission and that’s what Hallftime really revealed to me is because a lot of these people are like at that stage, 50 to 60 years old like I am now are now going to build wells in Haiti and doing things like that. Now, their mission is being played out so they can serve at a greater bigger level, in a more global level, and that's sort of what my mission is and what I do. I'm looking at all times and how can I add other value to other people like that in ways whether it’s the American Red Cross or where my mission has been for the last 10 years.

That’s probably going to be evolving to now something bigger where I can impact other people who may not have water, clean water, or go to Africa where they’re having significant challenges or something that was approached to me last week, Casey, is around the sex trafficking what's going on. How can I help impact that to help stop that? So, I think you have to ask yourself a better level question and I'll start with praying whoever your creator is or is not.

Casey: Well, it seems like at the core of this is that you use those past experiences that you had to better develop your future purpose. You develop that mission out of those past experiences and utilize those past experiences to help others. And one of those others that you helped in the past was Tony Robbins as one of his directors of security and I'm wondering how those experiences being the director of security for Tony Robbins, such a huge personality, how did those experiences working along with Tony help you during this period of time as you probably right in that moment when you knew the plane was going down?

Dave: Well, fortunately, for me, it gave me a lot of experience in managing my mind because one of the things and you follow him, one of the things he talks about is your emotional management or how to manage your mind and state of management whether it's your physiology, whether it's your audio or whether it's through words, whatever it may be. And so, I knew how to manage my mind so that’s number one, but number two and I think what really happened is he was the only one that called me that night in the hospital which really told me something and it taught me another lesson that said, “When somebody in your team going through a challenge, you got to be there for him. It doesn’t matter if you’re the CEO or whether you’re the guy who’s just cleaning offices at midnight,” and I think those things that he - being around him that taught me all these lessons of how people the most successful or top 1% of people how they really act and respond to other people. And I’ve seen good, I’ve seen bad. I’ve seen them both but being around and gave you those experiences, those resources, and because of one thing that he taught me is the key strategy everybody needs to have right now in their life is the ability to be resourceful.

It’s not about the resources that you don't have. It’s about what do you do the resources that you do have. During that day so that sort encapsulates the answer that day. I was resourceful that day and I think that's what the one thing I learned to be around Tony that I employ that day on so many different levels whether it is through verbal commands to people, whether they’re changing their state or managing my state to get out of the plane or when things were not going really well, how I had to focus in on and use my power, my focus. So, I think everything came down to resourcefulness that day for me and that's something I learned from Tony.

Casey: Well, one of the things you said you learned from Tony is regarding raising your standards. You said raising your standard simply means turning the things you should do into musts. It means creating a plan and following it no matter what, turning your should into must can change your entire life for the better.

Dave: Most definitely. I think that's where a lot of people, especially people who are younger right now who are wanting to be in that stage where I am and you are and you’re teaching people how to do is everything they should do this. You should do this, you should do that. You should all yourselves and so you make it a must, it’s not going to happen. And that's one thing I realize when I make something a must, it's resolved. It’s done. He talks about you can decide. That's great, but a decision is a decision. You haven’t taken any action on it. If you take action, you make a commitment. But as you committed, that's good, but it’s not done yet. But once you in your mind have resolved and I saw him teach this to an NHL team and now how Roger Bannister before he, it wasn't that he ran the first under four-minute mile. It wasn't running to that. It was he visualized it before and he believed that he could do it, internalized it, right? So, it was about the belief system and the way he managed the state that allowed him to be able to do it. All of a sudden, four more people that year did it after 2,000 years of people not being able to do it.

So, if you turn it into a must, and I need to get something done it’s a must. It’s resolved, it’s done. Now, I just got to figure out how I’m going to do it and it comes down to being resourceful again because now it's like who do I need, whose help do I need to be able to get this pulled off? See, I would come to you like I’ll come to you and say, “Hey, Casey, I need some coaching on because I’m going to retire in the next five years but I have a bigger mission, but I don't have the funds to do it. What strategy can you help me with?” And all of a sudden, I'm using you as a resource and that's where right now I think is key and I’m trying to teach younger people is you got to leverage other people, make it a must, then you leverage other people and they'll help you. People will help you but you got to ask them.

Casey: Well, it can be difficult to turn those should into a must. I've got one couple in particular where the gentleman's retiring and she is also retiring but she just cannot get over the fact that it's retirement. She feels like, “I'm not old enough to be retired,” and I don't want to retire yet but she's being forced into retirement. She really doesn't have a choice and while he's implemented retirement plan, she’s still holding onto those funds stuffed away in a 401(k) and she knows that she could put those things in a better place, pay less in fees and expenses, have better attention to the portfolio, and she wants that. She just can't because she said, “I know I should,” and now she needs to shift that over to a must and that can be a very difficult switch to actually make.

Dave: Yeah. And I think it’s all about reframing it. That's one thing I talk about and I talked about it in my TED talk is about the power of reframing the meaning. The meaning she has right now is certainly in that. She's got certainty and if I move it, I got…

Casey: I'm getting old. That's what it feels like.

Dave: Yup and I'm not ready to be old yet. Instead of reframing, you say, “You know what, I got another phase of my life and I'm starting to scratch again to something newer and bigger.” She's got to find a purpose for her life. She got to find a bigger, bigger reason to be able to do her next phase. It sounds like I'm not there and you're there closer. She hasn't figured that out yet. Someone hasn’t asked her the right questions of what could you be doing to add value to other people right now in a different way? And maybe repurposing that money to something you want to donate it to a cause or something and then all of a sudden you can be involved with that cause. Now, you have a different mission and your funds are going to that likewise.

Casey: And it’s almost like you have to lock yourself in a room to get this figured out and just start writing out that down all of the potential things that you can do in this next phase of your life and start to internalize them over time. And sometimes what we call this is retirement paralysis where we go, "Boy, I need to retire. I don't like my job. I need to move on to something else. I've got enough money. I know I just need to do it,” but it's almost this trance state that you find yourself in and just keep going through the same motions that you've gone through for the last 20 or 30 years because you’re almost in a trance and in your book, you talked about a lady that was on the wing. She had two children. She was holding a baby and she was not moving and if you didn't get her out of the way, people were going to die. How did you get her out of that trance state and how could we apply that to times in our lives when we know we need to make a transition, we’re just kind of stuck in the motions, we’re almost paralyzed and in a trance?

Dave: It all started breaking the pattern and she was in a trance and, Casey, think there are a lot of people in trance. I probably was in a trance at some moment on that plane. So, I'm not unusual, but she was in a trance and the way I look at it is she was in the middle of the wing and she was scared. She should have been but if she did move, other people can get off the wing. So, I had to break a pattern and the way I’ve learned to break patterns is you got to do something dramatic. You got to do something outlandish and that's why I yelled at her the way I did. Me yelling at a young lady doesn't look, it’s not a good appearance, right? It looks - but what happened was I got her attention. That's all I need to have. I need to just to break that trance, break that state. So, when people are going to that state right now like to go into retirement, they’re in a pattern right now. Someone’s got to break the pattern and how you break the pattern you got to do something outlandish. You got to do something really out there. So, someone's got to help that lady you're talking to work with right now to break that pattern of certainty. Do you know what? Maybe I'm in a phase of variety in my life right now and that's where people, when they start making these transitions, is what they call that midlife crisis kind of thing. Are you there?

Casey: I like halftime better.

Dave: Yeah. I love halftime better.

Casey: It’s a second act like Nancy Collamer said.

Dave: During halftime where you've lived with so much certainty. I made all this money. It’s in this bucket. I’ve got enough to live off of but you know what, maybe it's time for my life I need to move from certainty to variety where maybe I do need to do something totally different, told me to need to go to work for not-for-profit, go jump out of a plane like George Bush did. When he was 90 years old, he’s jumping out of the plane. Why? Because he wanted variety in his life. He had so much certainty in his life all those years, he was going to total variety in his 80s and 90s. That's what a lot of people do when they start figuring this thing out from their retirement. It’s like it’s not retirement. I’m just going to do something different and variety in my life and have different experiences and challenges to help me grow and so I can then go out and write a book about all these experiences I’ve done. Now, I use George Bush because he, unfortunately, he knows he just passed away, God bless him but look at an example of his life. He grew, grew, grew and all of a sudden, he loses the presidency. What does he do? Well, he has a little bit of a downtime but all of a sudden, he's going out raising money. He’s jumping out of planes. And all of a sudden, his retirement was a different mission, a different purpose.

So, you look at other people who've done it, right? And like we all learn. You model somebody who’s got the outcome you want, do exactly what they do, and you two will be able to get that outcome. But you got to model it exactly, but how do you do that? Well, how I do it? I get on the phone. I’d call the person. I use the example of a couple of ladies who lived down the street who were short story is I didn’t know that they survived the concentration camp until I was down there and they had these books, and I saw these books, and I said, “Tell me the story,” and they wouldn’t let me film it but they told me the story. They wouldn’t help me with that. There are people out there who either faced significant challenges in their life or had done some unbelievable things that be more than happy to tell you their story but no one ever ask them. So, I always try to seek out the person. If I want this outcome, who’s the person who’s got this outcome? I did. I started doing that when I ran my first marathon. I went out and reached out to the person who got the world record for ultramarathon. He became my coach. The guy’s had the world record for running across the United States in 63 days.

I reached out to him. He didn’t know me from Adam but he started coaching me on the mindset and all of something happened with one of the top financial brokers who work with Sir John Templeton was his mentee. I want to learn how somebody in their 20s all of a sudden became working with Sir John Templeton. I reached out to him and I got a 30-minute appointment. I drove down to Atlanta and sat in his office and we got into his brain. So, the thing I do differently than other people do who successful people do, find somebody who’s got it and reach out to them. They won’t give you the time. There might be an email. It might be a LinkedIn message but now, Casey, what’s so different than it was back when I was in the 1990s doing this, on this technology, you get hold of anybody. Back then you got to write a physical letter. You had to make a phone call. Now, you can put it on LinkedIn like yesterday I just got in touch with somebody whose name is Jay Abraham, one of the greatest marketers in the country.

Casey: Yeah.

Dave: He and I are now friends. I met him like 40 years ago or 35 years ago and all of a sudden, reached out to him he’s like, became a friend, and now we’re interacting, one of the top marketers in the United States. It’s not difficult. It’s just you got to effort and then we talked about earlier, you have to make it a must.

Casey: Well, I think what you’re saying there is just I’m not going to be able to yell a client of mine that would probably get me fired. And so…

Dave: I’ll get back with you.

Casey: Let's set ourselves up in a position where if we’re having trouble with this transition and start to talk to people that have already been through the transition, sit down with other retirees, other pre-retirees, people that are going through the same crisis as you and hopefully people that have handled it successfully and maybe tremendously more successfully than you could ever imagine so you can actually see what's possible as you go through that transition.

Dave: Once you do that landing, Casey, is you get a copy of what I have copies of the book, Halftime. Here’s a couple of the book Halftime. Just check this thing out. It’s just really a little bit about what other people have gone through because you're now unique. You’re not the most special person out there. You’re not the first person to go through this. So, here's a book Halftime. I’m giving it to you as a gift. Let me know if you like to talk about it and set her on her way and see if she takes action on it because if she takes action, she’s serious.

Casey: Yeah. Well, and I want to make sure we get to this discussion you had in your book about ego. There’s sometimes we get ready to make this retirement transition, we’ve got to use different tools then we’ve used in the past. We’ve got to start thinking about things differently. Maybe you're a day trader, and you're just not actually all that good at it but it's hard for you to get past and just put down the keyboard and stop trading on your own accounts or give up some control or actually listen to someone that might have better experience than you do. And one of the things you said in your book is one of the greatest lessons I learned about responsiveness is that sometimes you have to check your ego at the door. You have to let other people do what they do best. But how do we do this if we, especially, have had negative experiences in the past and that's created a bias towards potentially helpful solutions?

Dave: That’s interesting because where I learned that lesson first is when I was escorting a gentleman named General Powell. Basically, he was a secretary. He wasn’t even a secretary of defense at that point. I think he was in charge of the Armed Forces during the first war of Iraq. Schwarzkopf reported to him and he reported to Chaney and I was escorting him. This is where I learned this lesson. My job was to make sure no one got to him in the elevator from escorting him, but there was a guy that came in with, he was in the elevator and he was doing his job and cleaning rooms. And I asked the gentleman if he could take the next elevator and General Powell said, “No. Bring him because everybody got their job to do. No one’s too big to do somebody else's job. Bring him on. Let him come in because everybody's got a job to do.” That's what taught me that lesson. My ego was getting in the way. I’m the big guy. I’m trying to protect this general and all of a sudden, he's like, "It's not that big of a deal.”

So, that played out on the plane likewise. I’ll get to the point because I had a lot of skill sets that I could use but there a couple of other people in there likewise have better skill sets and do some certain other things. Like, people who are driving the ferries and stuff like that, they had different resources where I didn't have those. So, I learned that day by actual experiences. So, I did some things really well. Other people did something really well. Let them do what they do well. That’s how leadership really step up so they let the people really execute what they do best, right, and give them the support and give them the tools to do it. So, I think going into retirement likewise. Find somebody who’s done it before, like you said, model that person. Check your ego at the door. It’s like you know what, I don't have all the answers. There’re other people out there who have better answers than I do. That’s one of the reasons I watch Shark Tank every night because I learn these things from these guys, these ladies that they’ve done it. What nugget can I take from this that’s going to help me when I can help somebody elsewhere I’m checking my ego where I’m pretty at good a few things, but they got a unique skill set that I can learn from.

Same thing when it goes with retirement. There’s somebody else out there and check your ego at the door.

Casey: I think financial advisors can learn that as well. It can be very difficult for us because we feel like we have all the answers and all the tools and…

Dave: People looking at you for certainty, right? They’re looking for you and you’re supposed to be giving me certainty, but you don’t have all the answers, right?

Casey: Exactly. I mean, you never do and that’s something that my dad's been a financial advisor for 40 years and he always instilled that in me. You can't just say this tool doesn't work or stocks are bad or mutual funds are bad or ETFs. You can’t make those blanket statements because you may not know exactly how to use that tool or you don't know everything. You always have to be open to advice from other experts and evaluating that. Check your ego at the door. Another thing that you had to do as you are on that plane was evaluate the risks that you're confronted with. And as individuals step into retirement, they’re having to assess risks at the same time. How do you recommend that they begin that risk assessment process?

Dave: That's a great question because I learned that lesson from my dad and it came to me when I was getting my first car or I thought I was getting my first car. Let’s say it that way, and bottom line is my car broke down. I was in Washington DC. I went out and bought another car which is a 200SX Datsun, beautiful car. Brought it home. My dad said, "That's great.” I can afford the payments. Superb, right? He said, "Why don’t you call your State Farm agent? Why don’t you call Ken?” Well, you got to have insurance on the car, right? I called Ken. I couldn’t afford insurance on the car but I could afford the car and he always told, he said, "Assessing risk, you have to sort of look at the next bigger picture. You got to look at getting out of the situation strategy as important as getting into the strategy. He always told me, as if the exit strategy is as important as getting in the entry strategy. So, now as assessing risk, you go on that plane that day, I was going very quickly. I’m not going to say I did it perfectly by any means, but as I was looking at things step-by-step, I was like, “Okay. How am I going to get out of the situation, right?” Well, I’m up to water. I go, “How do we get out of this?” Well, I want to jump out on the wing. Well, the wing’s not there. What else could I do? I could hold on. So, I was assessing the risk the whole time about the exit strategy. That's what I tell younger people right now is before you get into something, understand how to get out of something first.

Casey: I think that's a really important, I was my most important takeaway from that segment of the book was, yes, you need to identify if it's a good risk or a bad risk to take, but I think most importantly, once you've assessed and identified that risk to find if it's a good wrist to take then you have to analyze your exit strategy because it’s still a risk and something can still go wrong and it doesn't matter where you put your money. If you put it in a savings account at the bank or a CD or mutual fund or an annuity or life insurance product, wherever you put that money, there is a risk and you have to assess that risk and identify the exit strategy at the same time. As I read your book, I got to the end and I got your daily rituals and I’m like, “Whoa, this guy’s got some serious daily rituals,” and I was wondering if you could share those with us and I'm curious if you're going to continue this very intense daily ritual the rest your life.

Dave: Well, I've actually even change it to this year, even modified, evolved it to this year where I do get up, but I think the first thing that I learned is you got to take care of your health first, especially for people who are the age like we’re talking about who are going into the thought process of retirement. You got to take care of your health first. So, I do that every morning but what I really evolve now is I do pray every morning now before I start today. I do go through my written facts right here in front of me.

Casey: You got your daily rituals right in front of you?

Dave: I got what I do right here is how I’m going to do this, my little daily ritual, wherever I turn. It’s in my wallet. It’s next to my bed and I read it twice a day, at least. So, and I get up and I do these things and I spend 60 minutes reading. Now, I’ve changed that and out of all that, Casey, I figure that. I go audiobooks. I could actually three books read in a week instead of half a book. And I do, so I get one to two books a week via reading. So, I do these rituals now every day, and they serve me because I get up early because when I’m ready to rock 'n' roll. I'm ready to rock 'n' roll and engage. I think people who don't have these daily rituals I know how to get through to today, Casey. They’re all over the place. No wonder they’re not focused and this is just something that I’ve seen successful people…

Casey: I’ve got to interject. This is extremely important if you're in retirement. I believe, I mean, my grandfather is in his early 90s and he is high-energy. He's on it. He's smart. He's still motivated. He's happy in retirement and every morning he's got his ritual. Every morning he puts his suit on and he gets out his schedule and he starts reviewing his appointments for the day and he does the same ritual every day, and it may seem monotonous, but it leads to a purpose ever at the same time.

Dave: That’s exactly. They put you in the mindset, right, of you can focus and put you in that mindset. Now, I think that we talk about modeling other people. So, going back to the question you asked me earlier some of the things that I learned about reading about Tony is I saw how these top 1% of people act, what they do, and the rituals that they do. Now, I really did is I stole it from them. I mean, to the point you have seen the thing with Tony where he jumps in ice cold water every morning?

Casey: Oh yeah. I've actually have done it. I did that time and my wife thought I was nuts.

Dave: I used to do but now I’ve got cryotherapy where I go every day.

Casey: Yeah. I'm doing that now too.

Dave: So, all I’ve done is I find the most successful people whether it’s health, finance, spirituality, and I got my little book here. I got my virtual counsel of these people. So, if I want to tap into my leadership model, I go to Ronald Reagan. I start reading about Ronald Reagan because I think he is a great model leadership and so I read about that so I put myself in his shoes and what the rituals that he did every day. One of the rituals he did every day was he eat jelly beans. Now, I don’t eat jelly beans every day but that was his ritual to get himself into creative mode.

Casey: Almost an artifact.

Dave: Yeah. That’s connection, that link. So, all I suggest to people is find some people who you trust, who have gotten the outcome you want, follow the rituals. Find out what they do every morning. I know I’ve been around what Mr. Robbins does. I’ve seen it and it’s been pretty successful for it.

Casey: Well, that can be a really good starting point for developing your purpose is to start planning your day and that's an exercise we’d like to go through the families with what they were working with because let's get out of schedule. Let’s plan out your day, hour by hour, what's it looks like. And so, you're getting up in the morning. You're working out it sounds like first thing then you're doing some reading and then – what’s the rest of your daily ritual look like?

Dave: Yeah. Listing the books. I open up every day now with the Lord's prayer and that really sets sort of the tone for my day because now I’m giving it away. I’m basically saying give me the opportunity. Just give me the opportunity. So, now I kick it off. The first thing I do is I pray then I take care of my personal health and then I really focus in on what's the most important of the day. Now, I change the way I’ve done my planning where I used to plan by actions. Now, I find out what outcomes do I want to accomplish. I basically got like three outcomes today. That's it. So, once I get those outcomes done which always comes next is my whole day, rest of the day is open up for being creative and innovative and serving other people so…

Casey: Every single day you have an outcome. You have maybe three daily outcomes that you're shooting for.

Dave: Three daily outcomes. What do I to do to get those outcomes? Like, today’s one of the outcomes today is, let’s see, basically set up my new video set for my group impact which I’m doing. So, I’ll do the two or three things but that outcomes and done about serving a higher level, because now I got over 100 people now who would be impacted by what I said but I’ve got the outcome. I just learned this once again, the top people don't do actions. They do outcomes. So, you’re going into retirement, I think one of the challenges is what outcomes could I have when I’m retired? Well, there’s a lot of outcomes you could have. You could impact non-for-profit organization. By the way, you can sit on the board of directors serving somebody else or not-for-profit. There's a lot of ways you can do that but I think you got - people going to this retirement mode, you’re not retired. All you got to do you’re shifting to a different modality. You’re shifting to how do I serve now instead of being served.

Casey: And do you work backwards into this and say, "Well. I'm transitioning into retirement. What is my lifetime outcome? When I get to the end and look back, what did I hope that the outcome was?” And then what's my annual outcome, my monthly outcome, my daily outcome? Do you kind of back into it like that?

Dave: Sort of like that. I actually changed now to quarterly so I find that at least in my world is that I work on a quarterly basis and that came from working for a technology company because basically, they judge you on your quarterly outcome, your quarterly number. They want you to get the monthly number but it was quarterly. Pretty much every I do know is I go from basically from annual, either I did do a ten-year plan. I have my five-year outcome. I do my one-year like ten one-year outcomes and then I break it down to a quarter because I think I can achieve 1it. Thirteen weeks I can achieve it but like in like in December it was a bad, bad, rough month on sale. It’s just people were not focused. So, if I look in December it’s a disaster but if I look at the last quarter it was good. It puts me in a proper mindset to be able to achieve and add value in a different way.

Casey: Well, and that I think some might think this is intimidating and say, well, you know I’m trying to retire. I really want to work anymore. Setting goals for myself every quarter or outcomes myself every quarter sounds like work but it doesn't have to be income-related or asset-related or business-related. It could be related to your health. It could be related to your family. It could be leisure for that matter. I want to play golf one day week.

Dave: I want to be able to visit my grandkids three times this quarter. How can I do that? Well, I’ve got the money to do that but how can I do that? And the second answer of that question is this and enjoy the process at the same time. You got to get something out of the likewise. It’s not all out word but how can I do this and enjoy the process? There’s always that second part of the question that people often forget it. When I ask that question, this is my outcome. I want to be at 220 pounds this time next year. That’s my goal. By January 1, 2019 I want to be 220. I got 10 pounds to go. So, I want to be that and how can I do that and enjoy the process?

Casey: Wow. That’s a really impactful question to ask yourself.

Dave: Yeah. And all of a sudden, I’m setting myself up.

Casey: Doesn’t sound like torture anymore.

Dave: No. I got a little sugar here, but you know what I can have as much pizza as I want. So, I’m enjoying that. So, it’s that second part of the question, the second question that ask me statement and all of a sudden, it sets you up for victory because now you're thinking of a positive step. This would be a negative. We’ll just say how am I going to lose 10 pounds this year? I mean, geez, I got to give up everything, I give up, give up, give up. No, you're doing this and are you enjoying the processes? Because I’ll enjoy the process doing it likewise.

Casey: Well, Dave, as we wrap up here and we’re running out of time, I think I’ve got a really interesting question to ask you. For someone that’s had all these experiences, especially the experience on the Hudson, you're 57 years old now, if you could go back prior to the experience on the Hudson and go back to your 30-year-old self. What would you say?

Dave: Number one. I wish I would've listened to my mentor. I was learning these things from Bill when I was 24, 25 and he was teaching me these life lessons and I was hearing them, but I wasn’t internalizing them. If I would’ve listened to half of what he taught me, I would've been retired by now. I would've been retired because this gentleman 80 movie theaters during the depression, His mentor gave him these notes in 1929 and he did them. He gave me the blueprint and I didn’t pay attention to the blueprint, but now since I refound them this last summer, I'm going do in the detail and paying attention to each one of these things, and my goal is to teach this to least 10 people this year. Teach them what I was sure I wish I had known, and I knew but I didn’t act upon when I was 30. That is the one thing that I’ve realized that I waste a lot of time. If I could take these last 20 some years and did that and it had all the investments that he did and now the people he impacted, you and I be having a different discussion right now.

Casey: Well, none of us want to waste our time on this earth. We’ve got to realize every moment is precious and I think that is that is largely what your books all about, Moments Matter, and you if someone wants to get in touch with you, learn more about you, get connected, maybe sign up for one of your groups and get to know you little bit better, how can they do that?

Dave: Well, I appreciate it because the best way is to go to my website and email me at [email protected] but I can really add value to people now as I did start this private group. Because what I found is people like this unique content I’m giving, but more importantly, they like the mentors I’ve had. So, one of the goals this year is to connect my mentors who are still living, this private groups, so they can they can learn one-on-one what I’ve been able to learn because one thing my big mantra this year, Casey, is this. You’re only one connection away. Now, one connection can turn your whole life around. That's what happened to me. That's what my mission is this year is how can I help you find that one connection and doing that going to DaveSandersonImpact.com will start you on that path.

Casey: And that can be finding that one person that could help you with retirement transition.

Dave: That’s right.

Casey: Help you if you want to start a new business and retirement for that matter. I think those are the types of things that I see the families we’re working with seeking, and when you say private group, you mean, private Facebook group?

Dave: Yeah. We’ve started a private Facebook group called Impact. You can check it out. But I’d keep this private because I’m giving exclusive content that I don't give out in public and giving exclusive cart that I’ve learned from my mentors. Most importantly, one of the things that Tony Robbins taught me it's all about proximity because proximity is power. If I get proximity to the people who taught me these things like Stu Middleman who’s a world champion, the world champion, ultramarathon, or somebody like that who's gone to that level or no one else is gone, now I give you access to that person and you could talk to him one-on-one in a group, how much power could that be and of in your health? Because he changes my health all this like that. When I was doing my first marathon, he was training me how the mindset of how these people are doing and all of a sudden, my health shifted. So, if I can help people do that, this is why I’ve kept it private because I want people to have exclusive access to my mentors and proximity to.

Casey: Well, to me you are a retiree and you say you’re never going to retire but if you love doing what you do every single day, you are already retired, especially if you have that financial freedom. So, David, thank you so much for joining us here on the show, I know you’re going to continue to impact probably not just tens but maybe tens of thousands of lives out there in the world.

Dave: Thank you for having me. God bless you. Good luck, everybody, who is in that phase of their life where they have the opportunity to do something amazing right now, whether that’s a transition to have a variety part in their life.

Casey: Thanks, Dave.

[END]